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Paxman 2-car Diesel-Electric

Background

The background behind the experiment can be traced in the minutes of the London Midland Region's Diesel Lightweight Trains Committee.

The minutes I have of these meetings begin in January 1955. Davey-Paxman had developed the horizontal 450hp engine in 1954 and had probably approached British Railways about the use of the engine in its railcars. Whether the approach prompted the LMR's interest in adding Inter-City DMUs, or whether adding the Inter-City DMUs services was already under investigation is unclear. At this point the Scottish Region and Western Region were proceeding with their own version of Inter-City DMUs which would be built at Swindon.

At the January 1955 meeting the design of the vehicles was underway and two routes had been selected as being able to use Inter-City units:
— Liverpool - Leeds - Bradford
— Birmingham - Liverpool - Manchester

At the February 1955 meeting an additional item is added to the Inter-City thread — "High speed multiple unit diesel train of Pullman Stock" — but by the next meeting this becomes its own thread (and ultimately becomes the Blue Pullmans).

Approval from the British Transport Commission (BTC) to proceed with the experiment had been sought by the April 1955 meeting, and their approval had been received by the June 1955 meeting and that "two cars are being prepared for the experiment". The BTC had also established a committee to "consider the introduction of diesel multiple unit main line express passenger trains as an alternative to diesel locomotives".

The October 1955 meeting noted that the conversion work was expected to be completed by the end of the year. At the next meeting in November 1955 that cost of the conversion for the two coaches was shown as £20,000 — £14,400 for the C&W work and £5,600 for CM&EE work. The work was delayed due to difficulty in obtaining steel and the engines had not yet been received.

It was reported at the December 1955 meeting that the engines were expected in mid-January 1956 and that trials could begin by the end of February. The engines would not be received until late March, then there were further delays as the April 1956 meeting reported that the electrical equipment from BTH was still awaited.

In Derby works circa August 1956. With cables coming out one of the windows going to the engine on 9828 this could be during static tests. The cab front is not fitted with the marker lamp at the top.

The June 1956 meeting reported that the first vehicle would be handed over to the CM&EE mid-June, the second a month later. A run on the Unit was scheduled for the Committee as part of the August 1956 meeting which was postponed as there were still delays in obtaining parts from BTH but static tests were underway with running tests expected the following week.

The unit had finally began its trials by the October 1956 meeting when it carried some Committee members from Euston to Rugby.

The March 1957 meeting noted that Paxman requested that the unit could be put on display (and operate a special hauling two coaches) at an International Sales Conference at Lincoln in May 1957 but the Committee declined. Costings for the Liverpool, Leeds and Bradford scheme showed that the proposed diesel unit would be more expensive than a loco-hauled service.

At the April 1957 meeting there was pressure to make a decision quickly as to whether to proceed with the Davey Paxman engines for the Inter-City schemes as BTH and Paxman had a two-year lead time for the equipment required. There was hesitation over the higher costs and over the next few meetings there were further trials and cost analysis.

At the November 1957 meeting a decision had still not been made, but a comparision had been compiled on the costs of running services with different types of units.

By the January 1958 meeting all the trials had been completed and Paxman had asked for the return of their equipment, which was agreed. A new engine - the Rolls Royce 238hp - was now on the scene and the lines under consideration for the Inter-City DMUs changed. The Liverpool, Manchester, Bradford and Leeds Scheme was divided into two: the ex-L&Y route would now be operated with conventional DMUs; the ex-LNWR route would now be a joint scheme with the North Eastern Region covering the Leeds, Manchester and Hull/Liverpool (Trans-Pennine) routes, for which the Davey Paxman engines were still under consideration. The Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester scheme was no longer being considered due to electrification.

The end came for the Davey Paxman engine at the May 1958 meeting. Although it had "proved satisfactory", it had been decided to adopt either the 238hp Rolls Royce or 230hp Leyland Albion engines, keeping the range of engines in use to a minimum.

The full set of minutes for the "Inter-City" thread have been reproduced below until the end of the experiment.

Meeting 29 - 11th January 1955

243. INTER-CITY SCHEMES.

(a) Design of Units.

Drawing No.21172 considered and agreed in principle. Mr.Larkin reported that Mr.Harrison was taking the initiative in calling a meeting at Derby with the appropriate officers of the L.M. and E. Regions. C.C.M. an C.O.S. also to consult with officers of N.E.Region.

Mr.Gould to contact Mr.Roundell respecting buffet car requirements.

(b) Liverpool - Leeds - Bradford Scheme.

To await consideration of design of units referred to in Minute 243(a).

Meeting 30 - 8th February 1955

264. INTER CITY TRAINS.

(1) Design.

Noted that, following meeting with E.R., Joint report to the General Managers has been prepared and will be submitted shortly.

(2) Liverpool - Leeds - Bradford scheme. (L.M. & N.E.)

Traffic Officers to submit usual report to General Manager as early as practicable.

(3) Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester.

Traffic Officers to submit usual report to General Manager as early as practicable.

(4) High speed multiple unit diesel train of Pullman Stock.

To be considered at next meeting.

Meeting 31 - 7/8th March 1955

269. INTER-CITY TRAINS.

(i) Design of Units.

The Chairman referred to the joint report from the technical officers of the L.M., E. and N.E. Regions to the General Managers dated 15th February 1955 and said that Mr. Bird has been advised that this Region is in agreement with the report. Mr.Bird has also agreed and copy of his letter of the 3rd March is attached as appendix "A". The Chairman said he had discusses this matter with the General Manager who wishes a joint submission to be sent to the B.T.C. for approval for an experiment to be conducted with Davey Paxman engines fitted to suitable vehicles which Mr. Randle has available when required.

The further point in Mr.Bird's letter regarding a "mobile power house" to be deferred for the time being.

It is assumed that the profiles of inter-city trains will be the same as for standard light weight units with bogie centres of 46'6" and length over headstocks 63'6" equally ended, but if not, the Chief Civil Engineer will require drawing showing full profile dimensions before construction is commenced to ensure clearances being satisfactory.

(ii) Liverpool - Leeds - Bradford Scheme.

Mr.Gould said that speed distance curves have now been issued by the C.M.& E.E. and he is ready to commence the formulation of this scheme. Considerable investigation will be necessary in the partial re-casting of the Central Division timetable.

It was stated that the Western, N.E. and Scottish Regions were developing designs for inter-city trains which incorporate gangway ends, thereby restricting the view for both drivers and passengers. It was agreed that the L.M. design of train should not have gangway ends.

Mr. Gould said he has discussed with Mr.Roundell the refreshment requirements, and the latter now wishes to discuss with Mr.Portman-Dixon. The Chairman said it was for the Region to decide on which trains refreshment facilities are required and if any difficulty arises, the facts should be reported to the General Manager.

(iii) Birmingham - Liverpool - Manchester.

Mr.Larkin promised that speed distance curves would be prepared as a matter of urgency.

Meeting 32 - 19th April 1955

292. INTER-CITY TRAINS

(a) Design of Units.

Noted that the General Managers of the L.M., E. and N.E. Regions have forwarded to the B.T.C. a submission for approval for an experiment to be conducted with Davey Paxman 450 H.P. underslung engines and that the B.T.C. have asked Messrs. Harrison and Cook for further information.

The Chairman said he has spoken to Mr.Warder, who has asked the Railways Sub-Commission to approve the proposal.

(b) Clearances

Mr.Butland said that provided the vehicles have bogie centres of 46'6" with bogie bases 8'6" or 9'0" and length over headstocks 63'6" (equally ended) with width over body not exceeding 8'11" and maximim width over handles not exceeding 9'2", i.e. the maximum profile above 3'1" from rail not exceeding the dimensions shown on Carriage & Wagon Engineers (Derby) Drawings DE/21041A dated 8.6.53 and DE/21042 dated June 1953, and that they conform to the Gauge & Diagram for parts below 3'1" from rail level sent by the Chief Civil Engineer L.M.R. to the L.M.R. Carriage & Wagon Engineer, Derby, they may be permitted to travel on lines at present maintained by the Chief Civil Engineer of the L.M.R. over which coaching stock normally works subject to the conditions stated below being observed :-

To be prohibited over the lines in Minute 263.

To be prohibited Dalston Station Poplar Branch.

The General Appendix & Service restrictions to be observed.

Mr Gould stated he is in communication with Mr Roundell regarding buffet car requirements and a diagram is in production.

With regard to running times, a reduction of 13 minutes would be necessary for 5 units to suffice, and Messrs.Gould and Read will look into the possibilty of a further reduction in the running times, having regard also to the commercial desirability of obtaining maximum acceleration.

(d) Birmingham - Liverpool - Manchester scheme.

Noted that timings have now been received and a meeting between representatives of the C.O.S. and C.C.M is being held on April 21st to consider commercial requirements.

Meeting 33 - 21st June 1955

313. INTER-CITY TRAINS

(a) Design of Units

Noted that the Commission have now agreed to the proposed preliminary trial on the understanding that no commitments are entered into and that the B.T.C. Chief Electrical Engineer and Chief Carriage & Wagon Engineering Offices are associated with the experiment. The matter will be reported at the next meeting of the Technical Development and Research Committee, to whom the results of the experiment will also require to be reported in due course.

The General Manager has requested Messrs.Harrison and Randle to give information, in due course, of expenditure involved and to keep him advised of progress made with the experiment.

Mr.Stanley stated that two cars are being prepared for the experiment and work is proceeding smoothly but it is not yet possible to give a forecast of when the unit will be completed nor to give a firm cost.

The Chairman said that the B.T.C. had set up a Committee of which he had been appointed a member, to consider the introduction of diesel multiple unit main line express passenger trains as an alternative to diesel locomotives. The B.T.C have been informed that if the L.M.Region's two schemes for Inter-city trains can be developed in reasonable time they will no doubt give some valuable information in connection with the enquiry by the new Committee.

(b) Design of buffet car

Mr.Lawrence produced a diagram of buffet car requirements which had been prepared following discussion with Mr.Roundell and it was agreed that this be sent to the C.& W. Engineer for approval.

Noted that, by a slight reduction of station time, it is considered possible to achieve a timing of 2 hours 10 minutes and that C.C.M. is prepared to accept this timing, if 2 hours is not possible. Agreed that Mr.Forsyth should re-examine the schedules, in conjunction with C.C.E., to see if 2 hours timing is possible.

Mr.Leach said that a suggestion had been received from the C.C.M. of the N.E.Region for investigation to be made into the possibility of dieselising the existing through services between Liverpool Lime Street and Hull and that a meeting was being arranged to discuss the matter.

(d) Birmingham - Liverpool - Manchester scheme.

Mr.Leach stated that the report on this scheme was not yet finalised but it is hoped to have a preliminary report ready for consideration at the next meeting.

Noted that a timing of 1 hour 40 minutes was anticipated for this service and it was agreed that Mr.Forsyth should re-examine the schedules, in conjunction with the C.C.E., to see if a shorter journey time is possible although MrLawrence stated that there was a possibility that higher speeds may upset the line capacity.

Meeting 34 - 25/26th July 1955

335. INTER-CITY TRAINS

(a) Design of Units

Noted that the proposed experiment has been reported to the Technical Development & Research Committee, who have asked to be kept advised.

Mr.Forsyth said that no physical progress has been made as negotiations are still in hand with B.T.H.Company respecting certain electrical details, and he will pursue this point and report in writing before the next meeting.

Mr.Butland mentioned the problem of unsprung weights with the diesel-electric experimental vehicles and said that they would punish the track considerably and relaxations of steam restrictions for diesel light weight units cannot be expected also to cover diesel electric vehicles.

(b) Design of buffet car

Messrs.Gould and Read still waiting for drawing. Mr.Stanley will send.

Mr.Forsyth stated that it is not possible to achieve a timing of two hours unless the speed restrictions can be lifted 10 miles per hour, and Mr.Butland is looking into. At one point the speed curve diagrams show a restriction of 55 m.p.h. whereas the appendix shows 75 m.p.h., and Mr.Forsyth will contact the North Eastern Region on this point.

Mr.Gould said that on Saturdays during the summer timetable 8-car trains will be required, but the Eastern Region Chief Operating Superintendent states that 8-car trains cannot be taken into Leeds station on Saturdays. It has been suggested that the trains should terminate at Bradford on Saturdays during the summer and at Bank Holiday periods, and this question is still under discussion between the Chief Operating Superintendents and Chief Commercial Managers of the two Regions.

(d) Birmingham - Liverpool - Manchester Scheme

Noted that final scheme is not yet ready for submission. C.O.S. has made a preliminary forecast that four 6-car trains may be required plus one spare train.

Mr.Forsyth said that if the speed restriction could be lifted by 10 m.p.h. there would be a possibility of reducing the journey time by approximately 27 minutes off the steam timings.

Meeting 35 - 4th October 1955

356. INTER-CITY TRAINS

(a) Design of Units

Noted that the conversion of the two vestibule coaches is expected to be completed by the end of this year. Agreed that when vehicles are ready for test, Mr.Larkin will arrange with Mr.Butland and North Eastern Region for speed tests to be carried out on the Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford lines. Mr Larkin will supply Mr.Butland with particulars of axle load etc. when the vehicles are completed.

The question of seating arrangements was discussed and it was agreed that considerations can be given to this matter pending the result of the trials, and Mr.Gould will look into the number of coaches required for the individual schemes.

Noted - that the authority of the Area Board has been requested for an expenditure of £20,000 for conversion of the two coaches.

(b) Design of Buffet Car

Design now agreed between Messrs.Gould, Read and Roundell except so far as stools and shelves are concerned, and Mr.Read will discuss this point with Mr.Rounell.

Mr. Gould said that the question of the apparently unavoidable termination of the trains at Bradford on Saturdays during the summer was well in hand with the North Eastern Region and a further meeting is to be held on October 24th. Draft timetables are being prepared and a meeting is shortly to be held to consider maintenance, cleaning and fuelling arrangements.

It was stated that the N.E.Region Chief Civil Engineer is not prepared to raise certain speed restrictions until he knows the result of the trials with the experimental vehicles, but Mr.Gould is proceeding with the preparation of a scheme for this area on the timings of two hours ten minutes.

(d) Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester Scheme

Mr Gould has received proposals from C.C.M. for working four 6-car sets in circuit and is proceeding to develop the scheme. Agreed that consideration be given to whether this scheme should embrace Coventry, and Messrs.Gould and Read will arrange for its examination accordingly.

Meeting 36 - 21st November 1955

378. INTER-CITY TRAINS

(a) Design of Units

Noted - that the authority of the Area Board has now been given for expenditure of £20,000 for conversion (C.& W.E. £14,400; C.M.& E.E.£5,600).

Mr.Stanley reported that the work on the carriages is well in hand, although difficulty is being experienced in obtaining steel supplies, but Mr.Larkin stated that the engines had not yet been received from Davey Paxman and he will ascertain the present position from the firm. He estimates that two months will be required for the purposes of experiment.

Agreed that Mr.Butland confer with the Chief Civil Engineer of the N.E.Region with regard to the trials after Mr.Larkin has supplied to Mr.Butland the required information in respect of axle loads etc.

(b) Design of buffet cars

Mr.Gould's letter of November 10th regarding procedure discussed and the Chairman said he would speak to Mr.Portman-Dixon.

Mr.Gould produced a plan of layout of buffet car, including shelves, which has been approved by Mr.Roundell.

Noted - that a further meeting has now been held with the N.E.Region at which it was decided to limit the trains to 6 cars throughout the year, additional workings during the summer being covered by duplicate trains rather than by strengthening.

Agreed that, in these circumstances, all trains can run through to Leeds with the exception of relief trains on Saturdays only through the summer which may need to commence and terminate at Bradford. The Chairman requested that an estimate be given as soon as possible of the number of 6-car trains required to cover the whole service, including spares.

Noted - that new schedules are now in course of preparation.

(d) Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester Scheme

Mr.Gould stated that proposals for this scheme, including projection of some services to and from Coventry, have now been formulated and are under consideration by the C.O.S. and C.C.M. The Chairman asked for an estimate to be given, as soon as possible, of the number of 6-car trains required to cover the whole service, including spares.

Meeting 37 - 29th December 1955

402. INTER-CITY TRAINS

(a) Design of Units

Mr.Larkin reported that two 450 H.P. power units will be dispatched to Derby from Davey Paxman about the middle of January 1956 and the conversion of the coaches is almost completed. The date for the commencement of the experiment is anticipated to be not later than the end of February 1956.

(b) Design of Buffet Cars

Noted that the B.T.C. have been advised of what is proposed and it has been suggested that the B.T.C. and Hotel Services confer on the design.

Mr.Gould stated that 10 6-car trains would be required for this service, 6 in circuit, two for maintenance spares and two for strengthening purposes for peak periods, additional Saturday traffic, excursions etc., and also for duplication purposes to avoid attaching additional vehicles to 6-car trains.

Report is still in process of preparation.

(d) Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester Scheme

Mr.Gould said this scheme is still in course of preparation and it is not yet possible to give the number of trains required.

Meeting 38 - 8/9th February 1956

423. INTER-CITY TRAINS

1. Design of units Mr.Larkin stated that Davey Paxman have carried out tests of the engines, and B.T.H. have supplied the generators. Road tests are expected to take place about the middle of March and will take two weeks.

2. Design of buffet car Mr.Gould explained the position and the Chairman requested that C.O.S. and C.C.M. consult the Western Region as to their design before reply is sent to General Manager.

3. Western Region. Birmingham - Swansea The Chairman called attention to the form in which this scheme has been submitted to the B.T.C., particularly in regard to the financial statement and the maintenance arrangements. It was noted that maintenance will be carried out at Tyseley and Mr.Gould said it would not be possible to use this depot for our Birmingham schemes.

It was agreed that Mr.Nicholls would contact the Western Region as to how the financial statedments were arrived at and if the form in which they are presented has been agreed by the B.T.C.; also to ascertain whether maintenance and fuelling installation costs, when submitted, are coupled to the particular diesel scheme or whether these are charged to modernisation, and how the net financial results of the Birmingham - Swansea scheme are affected.

4. Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford Scheme. Noted that report is progressing on question of maintenance arrangements and financial results, and Messrs.Larkin and Stanley will supply to Mr.Nicholls estimated cost of vehicles. Mr.Read will provide an estimate of increased revenue.

5. Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester. Noted that possible extension of this scheme to Coventry is having special attention and that the number of trains required is dependent on this enquiry. Agreed that the scheme be proceeded with despite possible future electrification.

Meeting 39 - 15th March 1956

432. INTER-CITY TRAINS

1. Design of units. Noted that Davey Paxman have promised delivery of the engines by end of March and that road tests will commence by the end of April. Results of tests will be known by May.

2. Design of buffet car Noted that B.T.C have been advised that it is considered there is need for two types of buffet car for L.M. and Western Regions.

3. Western Region Birmingham - Swansea. Mr.Nicholls' observations noted, and agreed that L.M.R. method of presentation of scheme submissions be continued.

4. Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford. Report progressing.

5. Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester. Report progressing.

Meeting 40 - 30th April 1956

440. INTER-CITY TRAINS

1. Design of units. Mr.Stanley reported that the engine for this unit has now been received. Electrical equipment not yet received from B.T.H., who are being strongly pressed. Mr.Langridge said the question of sighting distances for speeds of 85 m.p.h. and over would need to be borne in mind and Messrs.Gould and Butland said this matter was already under consideration.

2. Design of buffet car. Noted that Mr.Robson has agreed with Mr.Portman-Dixon that there is need for the two types of service indicated on W.R.Drawings 140543 and L.M.Drawing D.E.56480, and also agrees to the latter design being adopted for the Liverpool - Leeds - Bradford scheme.

3. Liverpool - Leeds - Bradford scheme. Report almost ready for submission and will be sent to the General Managers without waiting for results of trials with Davey Paxman engines.

4. Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester scheme. Not yet ready for submission, but is is hoped to complete before the engine trials are finished.

Meeting 41 - 7th June 1956

447 INTER-CITY TRAINS.

1. Design of units. Mr Stanley reported that the first vehicle will be handed over to the C.M.& E.E. for testing in 10 days time, and the second a month later. If tests prove satisfactory, experimental runs will be made on the Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford service.

Mr. Nicholls asked if, during the experiment, an assessment could be made of the fuel consumption and anticipated maintenance costs, and Mr. Langridge will arrange.

2. Design of buffet car. Nothing further to report.

3. Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford Scheme. Draft preliminary report to General Managers had been sent to North Eastern Region for approval, after which costings will be prepared for inclusion.

4. Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester scheme. Report still in course of preparation.

The next meeting had been proposed to take place during one of the Committee's jaunts, this one for a trip over the Seaconbe - Wrexham branch. During a layover at Chester in afternoon there was scheduled a "Demonstration trip by Davey-Paxman Prototype Power Cars". The would just be from Chester (General) to Sandycroft and back, a ten minute journey in each direction. It looks like the original intention that the Paxman unit would haul the LNWR Director's Saloon M45002M from Euston, as the letter accompanying the draft itinerary pointed out this was not possible as the unit was not equiped with vacuum brakes.

The draft itinerary was sent to the Committee member on the 24th July, on the 8th August they were sent a memo that the Davey-Paxman demonstration trip "will not now take place as it is understood from the C.M.& E.E. that the cars will not be ready by that time." The next day the trip was postponed, it is unclear whether this was a direct result of the unavailability of the Davey-Paxman set.^[1]

Meeting 42 - 17th August 1956

455. INTER CITY TRAINS

(1) Design of Units

Noted that delay in production of trial unit is due to difficulty of obtaining equipment from B.T.H.Co. Mr.Finlayson reported that static tests are now being undertaken and the unit will be put on running tests during the next week.

(2) Design of Buffet Car.

Nothing further to report.

(3) Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford Scheme.

Draft report in circulation for signatures of officers concerned, but cannot be costed until trials of experimental unit are complete.

(4) Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester.

Report still in course of preparation.

The Chester trip had been rescheduled for October 11/12th but was postponed again till October 30th/31st. For this some details about the vehicles emerged: it was air braked and could not haul a vacuum braked tail load; the only heating it had was from the engine "inside the unit" ; there was only room in the unit for about four seats.

The draft itinerary issued on 26th September had the same Chester-Sandycroft return trip planned for Wednesday 31st. But it was pointed out that it seemed "hardly appropriate, seeing they are designed for high speed long distance running, to demonstrated them over such a short journey." Chester-Sandycroft was ten minutes.

Instead, the "Davey-Paxman Prototype Power Cars" departed Euston at 10.30am on Tuesday 30th October with a handful of the Committee on board, running non-stop to Rugby (Midland) where it was scheduled to arrive at 11.50am. The remainder of the Committee travelled on M45002M attached to the rear of the 10.50am ex-Euston service, with the Paxman travellers joining at Rugby for the remainder of the journey to Chester.^[1]

Meeting 43 - 30th October 1956

464. INTER CITY TRAINS

1. Design of unit. The Committee travelled between Euston and Rugby on the experimental unit fitted with Davey Paxman engines and the running of the unit was noted with satisfaction. C.M.& E.E. is continuing with the experiment.

2. Design of buffet car. Nothing further to report.

3. Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford scheme. The Regional Accountant's financial assessment of this scheme was considered in detail and it was agreed that the submission be re-considered, special attention being given to the following :-

(a) Reduced number of engines per train.
(b) Reduction in number of units.
(c) Utilisation of units at week-ends.
(d) Number of units required as spares, both operating spares and motive power spares.
(e) High cost of repairs.
(f) Saving of steam engines and rolling stock.
(g) Anticipated increased revenue.
(h) Possibility of reducing parallel service from Lime Street.

(See following minute regarding Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester Scheme)

4. Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester scheme. Mr.Gould stated that some progress had been made in the preparation of this report. The service is mainly business traffic and units would be spare on Saturdays, for which other employment would be required. Mr.Gould will, in conjunction with Mr.Read, look into the possibility of utilising spare units at the week-ends on the Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford service (see previous minute).

Meeting 44 - 11th December 1956

477. INTER-CITY TRAINS

1. Design of units. Noted that tests have had to be postponed owing to Christmas traffic. Question of whether the generator can be accomodated underneath the coach is under consideration.

2. Destination indicators. Agreed necessary for side destination boards to be provided. Regarding destination indication boxes at front of units, agreed that these indicate only the final destination station, and Chief Operating Superintendent will take the initiative in arranging this.

3. Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford Scheme

Mr.Nicholls reported that following consultation between the C.M.& E.E., C.& W.E. and Accountant's Departments the estimated first costs of diesel train sets and the repair costs per train mile had been reduced. The extent of further possible reductions in the diesel costs as the result of various modifications of the scheme had been advised to the Chief Operating Superintendent, Chief Commercial Manager and Motive Power Superintendent. It was noted that the scheme was at present being re-examined as to diesel requirements and steam savings.

The Chairman stressed the urgency of the final report being submitted.

4. Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester Scheme.

Mr.Gould reported that good progress is being made with the preparation of this scheme and it is anticipated that the units spare at week-ends can be utilised locally.

Meeting 45 - 12th January 1957

488. INTER CITY TRAINS

1. Design of units

Noted that tests are still continuing and up to the present are satisfactory. Reduction has been made in the number of running tests in order to achieve a saving in fuel consumption.

2. Destination indicators.

At the last meeting it was agreed that side destination boards be provided and that destination indicator boxes at the front of units should indicate only the final destination station.

Mr.Gould reported that it has already been recommended by the Operating Committee, and confirmed by the General Managers that destination indicators are unnecessary on inter-city diesel trains, and roof boards and side indicators will meet requirements.

Mr.Dow was of the opinion that destination indicators are desirable and the Chief Commercial Manager, in conjunction with the Public Relations & Publicity Officer, will raise the matter with the General Manager.

3. Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford Scheme

Noted that scheme is with Chief Operating Superintendent, Chief Commercial Manager and Motive Power Superintendent for re-examination.

4. Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester Scheme

Noted that draft timetable for Saturdays excepted has been prepared and is being examined by Chief Commercial Manager.

Meeting 46 - 12th March 1957

498 INTER CITY TRAINS

1. Design of units

Mr.Finlayson reported that the experimental vehicle had now run 19,000 miles without serious trouble and it was proposed to make a test run on the Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford route after consulting with the North Eastern Region.

2. Exhibition at International Sales Conference

Messrs.Davey Paxman have asked if it is possible to have the two trial cars available at Lincoln, week commencing 13th May at the International Sales Conference to haul two passenger coaches on a special trip. This has been agreed but Mr.Harrison now considers these vehicle would not be suitable for the following reasons :-

(a) The appearance of the vehicles might give the wrong impression to the public as they are only in mock-up form.

(b) It would not be possible for members of the public to be accomodated in the cars themselves and trailing vehicles would have to be fitted, which is not the role of this type of rail car.

Mr.Harrison has suggested to Davey Paxman that diesel locomotive 10800 might be loaned for the period of the Conference, not for hauling the special train possibly run by standard diesel rail cars.

Matter is in hand with Messrs.Clayton and Tongs.

3. Destination Indicators

Deferred for further consideration by C.C.M. and P.R.& P.O.

4. Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford Scheme

Mr.Gould stated that on re-examination of this scheme the conclusion has been reached that the proposed diesel unit scheme will be more expensive to operate than a locomotive hauled service and it was agreed that the General Manager be requested to give a decision on the question of policy as to whether the diesel scheme should be proceeded with from a prestige point of view.

Mr.Nicholls to prepare revised costings and a joint report from the Officers concerned to be submitted to the General Manager.

5. Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester Scheme

It was agreed that further investigation into this scheme be deferred pending the costing of the Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford service referred to above and the development of electrification in the area.

Meeting 47 - 8th April 1957

508 INTER CITY TRAINS

1. Design of units

Mr.Finlayson reported that the 450 H.P. Davey Paxman engines are still running satisfactorily having completed tests of 22,000 miles. It has not yet been possible to make a test run from the Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford route but the C.M.E. is now satisfied that these engines are suitable for the work required.

2. Exhibition at International Sales Conference

Noted that it has now been agreed to diesel locomotive No.10800 being exhibited instead of two Davey paxman rail cars. In regard to running a special train of standard diesel units, Messrs. Ruston and Hornsby have been referred to the Eastern Region.

3. Destination Indicators

Noted that the General managers are considering whether the whole question of destination indicators on trains should be remitted to the Operating Committee.

4. Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford Scheme

Arising out of Minute 498/4 Mr. Nicholls reported that revised costings show an increased annual cost, diesel compared with steam, of £110,000 against which the estimate of additional receipts is £80,000 pre annum.

Alternative proposals involving reduced diesel mileage were discussed but it was agreed that the submission to the General Manager should be made in the first place on the basis of the original scheme providing for 836,000 diesel train miles per annum and the Chairman asked for the joint report to be sent to the General Manager in time for submission to the May meeting of the Area Board.

Mr. Stanley stressed the importance of ordering the electrical equipment from B.T.H. in the very near future, otherwise delivery could not be expected for about two years, and Mr. Finlayson said the same also applies to the ordering of the Davey Paxman engines and ancilliary equipment.

5. Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester Scheme

Investigation into introduction of diesel units to be re-opened on the basis of replacing existing services as diesel unit services would be useful during installation of electrical equipment to save station working and greater acceleration to reduce Permanent Way slacks.

Meeting 48 - 17th May 1957

517. INTER-CITY TRAINS

1. Design of units

Noted that report has been received from Chief Mechanical & Electrical Engineer and Carriage & Wagon Engineer that tests have proved satisfactory, and has been sent to Eastern and North Eastern Regions for comments prior to submission to B.T.C. Four-day test is being arranged on the route of the Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford proposed service and Mr.Finlayson will report result, including particulars of fuel consumption.

2. Destination Indicators

Noted that the General Managers have agreed to this question being considered by the Operating Committee.

3. Liverpool - Leeds - Bradford Scheme

The question arose as to whether a preliminary report on this scheme should be submitted to the General Manager before consultation with the North Eastern Region and the Chairman stated that this was the intention.

4. Birmingham - Liverpool - Manchester scheme

Noted that investigation into this scheme has been re-opened on the basis of replacing existing services by diesel units.

Meeting 49 - 15th July 1957

526. INTER-CITY TRAINS

1. Design of units. - Noted that a condensed report on the working of the trial vehicles has been sent to the Technical Adviser to the B.T.C; Mr.Finlayson stated that a full report was being sent to the General Manager.

2. Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford scheme. - Revised report considered. Noted that the scheme is based on journey time of 2 hours 10 minutes, whereas tests had shown that this can be covered in two hours two minutes. The eight minutes difference is accounted for by two P.W. slacks and Mr.Butland said that as the tests were made in the old stock, it was not advisable to make any relaxation in this speed restriction until the new stock is available for test.

3. Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester scheme. - Investigation now being made on the basis of replacing existing services by diesel units, and progressing satisfactorily.

Meeting 50 - 10th October 1957

535. INTER-CITY SERVICES

1. Design of units. - Noted that discussion has taken place between officers of the B.T.C. and L.M.Region, arising from which a further assessment of maintenance costs of Davey Paxman engines is being made and a further test is to be held.

2. Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford scheme. - Noted that revised submission is progressing but cannot be completed until decision reached regarding Davey Paxman engines.

3. Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester scheme. - Investigation deferred until decision reached regarding Davey Paxman engines.

Meeting 51 - 19th November 1957

544 INTER-CITY TRAINS

1. Design of units. Accountant's assessmment of comparative costs of Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford service with different types of units noted. Information supplied by Accountant to be sent to Officers of B.T.C. concerned with view to a further meeting being held to decide type of engine to be adopted.

2. Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford scheme. Revised submission being prepared but cannot be completed until decision reached regarding type of engine to be adopted.

3. Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester scheme. Investigation deferred pending decision reached regarding type of engine to be adopted.

Meeting 52 - 15th January 1958

553 INTER-CITY TRAINS

1. Design of units. Further meeting with technical officers of the B.T.C. has not yet been held, but additional information supplied by Messrs. Harrison and Harris has been sent to the technical officers who have commented thereon. The General Manager has asked for a joint report from Messrs. Harris and Harrison before a further meeting is arranged. (See also Minute 551.4.)

Noted that Messrs. Davey Paxman have asked for the return of the engines and other equipment to them as tests are now complete, agreed that engines and equipment be returned to the makers.

2. Liverpool, Manchester, Bradford and Leeds Scheme - Mr.Gould said that on further consideration of this scheme the view has been formed that the ex L.& Y. route could be operated by the standard diesel multiple unit and investigation was proceeding on these lines.

With regard to the ex L.N.W. route, it was agreed that a joint scheme with the N.E. Region be prepared incorporating the Leeds, Manchester and Hull/Liverpool routes, the investigation to cover design of units and use of 450 H.P. Davey Paxman engines.

3. Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester scheme - Agreed that investigation into this scheme be deferred having regard to electrification.

Meeting 53 - 11th March 1958

564 INTER-CITY TRAINS

1. Design of units

(a) The Chairman stated that Messrs. Harrison and Harris have jointly reported on this question. Additional information has been sent to the B.T.C. Technical Officers and a further meeting has been arranged for Wednesday, March 12th (see also Minute 562.3)

(b) Noted that B.T.C. have agreed, that is Regions desire, the stock for inter-city trains can be constructed with a clear front and rear view but at the very initial stages Regions to indicated their desires in this respect.

2. Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds and Hull scheme (via L.N.W. route)

Mr. Gould reported that a meeting has been arranged with the N.E. Region regarding this scheme.

Meeting 54 - 5th May 1958

573. INTER-CITY SERVICES

1. Design of units

Noted that at meeting with B.T.C. technical officers it was noted that the experiment which had been made with the Davey Paxman 450 H.P. engine had already proved satisfactory but it was felt that as it had already been agreed to adopt 238 H.P. Rolls Royce and 230 H.P. B.U.T. engines, no further action should be taken as regards the use of the Davey Paxman engine. It was decided that future inter-city schemes would be developed on the use of 238 H.P. Rolls Royce engines or a suitable B.U.T. type.

2. Liverpool, Manchester, Huddersfield, Leeds and Hull Scheme (via L.N.W. route)

Mr. Gould reported that investigations in conjunction with the North Eastern Region are progressing satisfactorily.

3. Liverpool, Manchester, Bradford and Leeds Scheme (L.& Y. route)

Investigation proceeding.

Meeting 54 also had an appendix outlining the "Standardisation of Underfloor Power Equipments".

Coverage of the "Inter-City Services" continued in the Committee minutes as it evolved into the Trans-Pennine units.

References

^{⋏ a b}Committee correspondence in National Archives - AN172-283 Diesel Lightweight Trains: General

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